// Egypt bans 92-year-old's marriage
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Ehsan
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« on: Jun 13, 2008 02:50 PM »


The Egyptian authorities have banned a 92-year-old man from marrying a 17-year-old girl, the Egyptian al-Akhbar newspaper has reported.

The ministry of justice invoked a law which says the age gap between spouses should not exceed 25 years.

Egypt brought in the law prohibiting the marriage of elderly men to very young girls during the Gulf oil boom.

It was an effort to prevent wealthy men from the Gulf states seeking young poor brides from the Egyptian countryside.

Not much is known about the 92-year-old man who tried to marry an Egyptian girl of 17 except that he is an Arab from the Gulf.

An Egyptian justice official said by refusing to endorse their marriage it would now be impossible for the girl to travel abroad with her husband.

However, in special cases, the justice ministry does allow foreign men to marry Egyptian women more than 25 years their junior if they deposit a very large sum of money in the name of their wife at the Egyptian National Bank.

Both husband and wife also have to report in person to the ministry which checks their marriage is genuine to prevent any kind of trafficking in women.

According to the al-Akhbar newspaper, 173 such marriages were allowed in the past year after the foreign husband deposited a sum equivalent to about US $80,000 and was screened.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/middle_east/7452456.stm

Published: 2008/06/13 09:11:16 GMT

© BBC MMVIII


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« Reply #1 on: Jun 14, 2008 02:41 AM »

salam,

I was very happy to hear about the 25 year-gap law. That's great ma'shallah. But then I read about how people can get around it: $80,000  Sad just sad.

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« Reply #2 on: Jun 14, 2008 09:50 AM »

And what verse of the Quran is that law based on?
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 14, 2008 10:27 AM »

:slm


And what verse of the Quran is that law based on?

The one that says women are not chattel, that they are entitled to physical and emotional satisfaction from their marriage just as a man is.



Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 14, 2008 10:38 AM »

Please give the reference because if it exists, then how many of our prophet’s marriages were void?
And refrain from using slogans like that, you are coming extremely close to fabricating verses.

Who a woman marries is her business and the business of her Wali, not the business of kufr rulers.
Like it or not, in Islam rules are from Allah, not from human beings.
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 14, 2008 12:48 PM »

salam


It's common knowledge tho is it not, that people marry to safeguard their chastity, and we are so instructed, a husband and wife are one anothers garments right?

Of course the prophets of the past ie Abraham (as), Zakariyah (as) had very very long life expectancies, I think there was a companion of the beloved Prophet (saw), who complained that as the Prophets (as) of old lived long lives as did their followers they had longer to do good deeds and please Allah thro their prayer and actions.

We the followers of the beloved Prophet (saw), do not have the same life expectancy as those who came before us, so its not comparable. More importantly I don't recall any prophet (as) of the past who was written as specifically marrying a woman so much younger than him as the above scenario, please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Now my views, completely without religious base here, and from a womans perspective entirely.
I as a woman would be happy with a husband who is in charge of all his faculties, who I could enjoy a relationship with in all senses.
Without knowing this 92 year old and without knowing this 17 year old, I would say that a 92 year old is not going to be able to be the husband a 17 year old desires, moreover he will very likely die very early in the marriage, thereby leaving a very young widow, who may or may not be then looked after by her husbands relatives, who may or may not remarry, depending on the views of the eligible men around her (some may consider her past her shelf life (was that the phrase?) Roll Eyes, used goods Roll Eyes etc).

The laws of marriage were made to safeguard and protect the rights of both men and women, men who marry such young girls, at such an elderly age, are not thinking of the women they take in marriage, they are not protecting the rights of women, they are trying to twist the laws of Allah to pander to their vanity.
I am so glad the authorities stepped in to prevent this, of course a woman living in abject poverty will agree to it, go without food and the basics of life that we take for granted for a few days, and see how ready you are to pander to the first person who offers to buy you out of the slum.
We should pay more charity, and try and alleviate these persons plight not take advantage of the downtrodden.

Of course I dont know anything about these two, he may be dirt poor and she may live in a palace (I somehow doubt this tho).

At the end of the day, consider what you would desire in a wife, and then realise that a woman would desire the exact same in a husband.


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
nuh
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 14, 2008 12:52 PM »

As salaam alaikum.

My dear brother cheese:


not the business of kufr rulers.


According to the Quran, if a person says assalamu alaikum to us to indicate that he is a Muslim, we cannot say to him "you are not a believer.'' (4:94)

"Ibn Umar related that the Holy Prophet said: If a Muslim calls another kafir, then if he is a kafir let it be so; otherwise, he [the caller] is himself a kafir.'' (Abu Dawud)

"Whoever attributes kufr [unbelief] to a believer, he is like his murderer.'' (Tirmizi)

Brother, I am very concerned about the tone of your posts. There seems to be much judgement, contradiction and confusion. Are you a sheikh? Where did you study? Do you have credentials to make a declaration of kufr? Are you of the Ulama?


I hold your own words to you:


You have no right to think that, and less right to say that.



People who love kaffar and always make excuses for them are the same people who bash Muslims and never make excuses for them.


I love you for the sake of Allah (swt) brother. Don't go to hellfire over a BBC news report!

Ma'as salaama,
nuh
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« Reply #7 on: Jun 14, 2008 04:29 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

Well i think much of the problem lies in not actually knowing enough about these 2 people. Can this man even fulfill his own rights as a man to have children? etc. there is much room for conjecture here.

 I think based on the general assumption that a 92 yr old would most likely not have all of his faculties in place to be the ideal muslim husband to a 17 year old girl, the authorities would have been correct.

I personally agree with sister fozias response here, purely based on "general assumptions". However, i think to set this discussion more to an islamically sound one - we can focus on the t - the issue of a 25 year gap law - is it islamically acceptable or not? Does it go against the shariah ?

Are there any egyptian brothers and sisters who can explain t his law fully - is it absolute or simply only put into effect in exceptional cases like the one above?


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« Reply #8 on: Jun 14, 2008 04:57 PM »

I honestly dont think a 92 year old man would be living long enough in order to satsify a 17 year old girl. Needless to say have children.

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« Reply #9 on: Jun 14, 2008 09:01 PM »

Asalamualaikum wrt wb,


All praise be to Allah.


In order for a marriage to be valid, the following 3 conditions must be met:

1.  An offer and acceptance between the two parties involved.
2.  Two just male witnesses.
3.  Permission of the wife-to-be's wali.

In the absence of any of the above, the marriage is rendered invalid.


Also, the following things are required for the marriage to be acceptable:

1. Permission by the wife-to-be.
2. A Mahr or its equivalent.
3. Absence of any preventatives between the wife and the husband (such as close relations, different religions (except a Christian or Jewish wife), etc)
4. Not mentioning any time frame (zawaj mut'ah).


Any violation in the above will result in the marriage contract being annulled according to most scholars.


Finally, in order to the marriage to remain valid:

1. The husband must not be impotent and the wife should not have anything preventing sexual relations.
2.  The husband must provide for the wife.
3.  There should have been no deception and the hiding of defects before the marriage.



In the case of the above, the husband or the wife can complain to a Shari'ah court for a judgement of seperation based on defect, lack of support, etc.


Finally, the question remains, as you mentioned brother Ehsan, is it permissable for a government to restrict marriage to a 25-year gap?


The real problem that the Shuyukh mention is that many girls' guardians do not fear Allah and marry their daughters to rich men so they can usurp their Mahrs.  This is haram, and a violation of the guardianship that Allah legislated to safeguard the daughter from harm. 

In this case, if the guardian seeks to marry his daughter to a Faasiq (evil-doer) or someone who is not in her best interest, or if the guardian prevents her from marrying a righteous man for no valid legal reason, the guardianship passes from the immediate guardian and goes to the Imam or his representative.

Thus it is not right for guardians to betray this trust that Allah has given them.


In general, however, the government does not have a right to interfere with personal affairs as the scholars state:  direct guardianship (ie. like the father's) is stronger than public guardianship (that which the judge or the goverment possess.) 


However, because of what was mentioned above, the guardianship of the father is nullified in most of these cases, and thus the Shariah court now has a say.

If the Shariah courts says it is in the best interest of the girl to have $80,000 in her name to prevent her from being abandoned by the husband in such cases, it has a legal right to say so, from the standpoint of Shariah.

This could serve as a deterrent from someone marrying a young girl with the intention to divorce her after a few weeks or months.


All praise be to Allah, whose Legislation is Perfect, and may Allah guide us to follow it in the footsteps of the Prophet, may Allah's peace be upon him, and his blessed Sunnah.  Ameen.


And Allah knows better.

Be merciful to those on earth, and the One in the Heavens will be merciful to you.
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 15, 2008 03:29 PM »

salam

I cant help thinking this must be a big problem, for the government to even think about placing such measures..


Wassalaam

And when My servants question thee concerning Me, then surely I am nigh. I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he crieth unto Me. So let them hear My call and let them trust in Me, in order that they may be led aright. Surah 2  Verse 186
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« Reply #11 on: Jun 18, 2008 05:07 PM »

al-hamdulillah this law is absolute!

Btw, marriage is not a business transaction or sale contract ... and the analogies with the Prophet is completely inappropriate here.

Thus, I'd like to see any teenage girl (or her wali) marry these men if they paid a normal dowry.

"...Surely my prayer and my sacrifice, my life and my death are for Allah, the Lord of the Worlds..." (Qur'an, 6:162)
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