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« on: Jul 19, 2008 09:41 PM »


OK so I was reading an article and I will quote you this part of it:

Women in Menstruation
A menstruating women or one who is experiencing post natal bleeding or a person in a seminally defiled state is prohibited from entering into a masjid (mosque). The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said:
I do not make the masjid (mosque) lawful for the menstruating women or the one experiencing post natal bleeding (Abu Dawad, Ibn Maja, Tabarani, Zayla'i has considered it sound [hasan] 1:193-194).


Young Children in the masjid (mosque)
It is unlawful [haram] to bring in infants or young children into the masjid (mosque) if there is a possibility of them polluting the area of the masjid (mosque). If they are in diapers and less likely to pollute any part of the masjid (mosque), it will still be somewhat disliked (makruh tanzihan) to bring them as they could be carrying filth in their diapers (Radd al-Muhtar ’ala ‘l-Durr 1:441, Al-Ashbah wa ‘l-Naza’ir, al-Qawl fi Ahkam al-masjid (mosque) 407). The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said:
Keep your infants and the insane away from your masjid (mosque)s (Sunan Ibn Maja, babu ma yukrahu fil-masjid (mosque)).


Is that harsh or an over-exageration of the truth or am I way off in my understaing of the role of the masjid? My understanding was that women (even menstrating ones!) can join study sessions and only lean on the walls where people don't pray basically. Is this true or not?

And children...well I thought you were to encourage them to see and love the prayer and the mosque afrom a very young age? Especially since they don't see Muslims and people praying all around them being a minority here? I NEVER expected it to be "disliked"? This sounds as though you have to introduce it at an age when they CAN actually behave and have control morally and biologically and expect them to love it and even discepline them over prayer due to its importance, but not try to instill it in them before that? What am I missing here.

What are the general guidelines for Muslims in the mosque bathrooms too? A few articles were suggesting changing tables in the bathrooms...so what happens once you change a child? Do you leave behind dirty nappies or do women leave sanitary napkins properly disposed of if in fact we are allowed in there in the first place? Or is the proper etiquette to take diapers and such things all the way back home with you?

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« Reply #1 on: Jul 19, 2008 10:33 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

Regarding the children's permissibility of being part of the congregational prayer,  Allah Most High said,

"(This lamp is found) in houses which Allah hath allowed to be exalted and that His name shall be remembered therein" [Quran, 24.36]

2. It is very important to raise our children with a strong attachment and love for their religion, and community, and thus it is important for them to have a strong and positive attachment to the mosque from a young age, especially in non-Muslim environments.

3. However, it is anything that causes general distraction is disliked in the mosque. Thus, it would be disliked to have the children in the prayer hall at the time of prayer if they will cause a distraction. It would be haram to bring them if they are not toilet trained if there is reason to fear that they may soil the mosque.

4. If the children have been trained properly by their parents, such that they will not be a nuisance or distraction for other worshippers, and it is not feared that they will soil the mosque, then it would not be disliked to bring them.

5. If the children are young, it is best that they pray next to their parents, as this is likely to ensure that they behave.

6. If there is a small number of children, it is best that they pray between the adults (and not in a separate line).

7. If it is feared that a line of children may lead them to spur each other to rowdy behavior, as often occurs, then it would be best that they pray between the adults.

Thus, we find in authentic hadiths that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) used to pray while carrying children, including Umama the daughter of Zaynab (Allah be pleased with her) [Bukhari and Muslim], Hasan and Hussain, and others. At the same time, he commanded that children be kept away from the mosque [Ibn Maja]. The latter is understood to mean when it is feared that they will soil the mosque, or it is feared that they will cause a nuisance, or if they are generally unattended. (from Shaikh Rabbani with slight modifications)


Finally, if a child misbehaves in the mosque it is important to remember that children are innocent and sinless. Thus, we cannot reprimand them harshly: this may make them dislike mosques, the religions and maybe even their religion. Rather, we should treat them with gentleness and mercy, though being firm where needed. The parents, however, should be reminded of their duty to take care of their children while at the mosque.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) said, "Those who do not have mercy for our young and respect for our elders is not of us." [Tirmidhi]

Regarding the issue of menstruation - The area for menstruating women is different from the actual place of prayer (the prayer area is the mosque, the rest of the rooms arent) - ie. anywhere that is not the place of the actual salah, is permissible for the menstruating women to be in. Therefore, they can listen to halaqas and such at the "mosque", as long as they dont physically be in the place of salat - rather in a seperate hall or room.

It is permissible for a menstruating woman to pass through a mosque if she believes that she won’t soil it with blood, and passing through means that she enters from one door and exits from another. As for entering and exiting from the same door, that is prohibited because it takes on the ruling of ‘staying’ in the mosque.

And Allah knows best
Ehsan


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« Reply #2 on: Jul 20, 2008 05:30 AM »

as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Quote
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said:
Keep your infants and the insane away from your masjid (mosque)s (Sunan Ibn Maja, babu ma yukrahu fil-masjid (mosque)).

I have heard the scholar/teacher of hadith Sh. Naim al-Araqsousi of Damascus, Syria say that this is actually a weak text... and that there are many other reports that show that children were brought to the masjid of the Prophet saw... and many of those reports even specify where they prayed in the line of worshippers, etc. 

I believe these texts show that children did have a place in the masjid but that there was a certain etiquette involved with their presence and control over their behavior... they were encouraged to pray with the adults and not run around screaming etc... and so a certain respect was shown to the masjid and to those trying to worship in khushu' and focus.

As for a menstruating woman, from what I know all four schools are strict about not allowing her to enter the masjid, but one must define what is actually included in the term 'masjid'.  To reiterate a pt. Br. Ehsan made, in the West our masajid are also community centers/places of learning and so what may actually be considered the masjid is what we would call the 'musala'.  I have even heard one scholar [though this opinion is not the majority, or one of any of the madhahab) say that if there are classes being held in the musala, and a woman has no other means of learning her deen specifically in the Western context, and she can ensure that the masjid will not be affected by her menses (through wearing appropriate dressing/pads etc) that she can even sit there...   Allahu a'lam.

wasalaam,

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« Reply #3 on: Jul 20, 2008 02:03 PM »

salam

I think there has to be a distinction in fatawa between masajid in muslim lands and those in non muslim lands.   Here in non mulim lands, where are we supposed to take our kids to get used to the idea of muslims praying in congregation, develop a muslim identity and meet other muslims?? 

I agree the parents should be more watchful of their children and try to make them understand that a masjid is the house of Allah and should thus be on their best behaviour. 

There is a quiet room in one of the masajid where moms with children can go.  It is a sound proof room.  But I don't go that masjid anymore, I don't feel part of the congregation when I am in that room.  I feel that I am a burden that has to be put up with somehow.

take care
wassalam
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« Reply #4 on: Jul 20, 2008 02:07 PM »

Assalamualaikum,

To my understanding regarding that specific ahadeeth - it is inferred that the infants do not have potty training, and may defile the masjid, and when placed in context of the other hadeeths supporting children being part of the salah, then it makes sense that if the child is not potty trained, then you should not bring them.

The fatawa issued in my response applies to any masjid according to the majority of the fuqaha of the ahlus sunnah.

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« Reply #5 on: Jul 27, 2008 09:27 AM »

Salam alaikum wrb,

     Ehsan, jazaka Allahu khair for your posting of the response. It is consistant with what the scholars
say on the issue.


Honorable sister,


Quote
Is that harsh or an over-exageration of the truth or am I way off in my understaing of the role of the masjid? My understanding was that women (even menstrating ones!) can join study sessions and only lean on the walls where people don't pray basically. Is this true or not?

    It is obligatory on all people, including women, to learn the ilm. They should be encouraged to go to the
masjids and learn from the imams, shuyukh, and ulema. It is also encumbant on everyone to help and encourage
each other to learn their religion, and remove the wrong ideas and conceptions that they may have.  It is not
right to dissuade and discourage our women from attending the places of ilm, as prophet Muhammed  saw
said, "Do not prevent your women from going to the masjids."

    There are quite a few rulings from the ulema that allow women to go the masjid in a state of menstruation, under various circumstances, provided that the menstrual blood is contained. It is also the view of the majority of scholars that woman in a state of menstruation are in areas that are not used for praying, liking in storage areas, walkways, classrooms, etc.  This is the view of Bin Baz, Ibn Uthaimeen, and the majority of the schools.


Quote

And children...well I thought you were to encourage them to see and love the prayer and the mosque afrom a very young age? Especially since they don't see Muslims and people praying all around them being a minority here? I NEVER expected it to be "disliked"? This sounds as though you have to introduce it at an age when they CAN actually behave and have control morally and biologically and expect them to love it and even discepline them over prayer due to its importance, but not try to instill it in them before that? What am I missing here.

     For children, it becomes obligatory to encourage them to pray at the age of seven, and hit them (unabusively) at the age of ten.  Some scholars say the encouragement for prayer starts at an earlier age, when the child can distinguish his right hand from the left, based on a hadith from prophet Muhammed saw.

     You are absolutely right that a child should be taught the teachings of Islam, and be exposed to the traditions of prophet Muhammed saw , and not be estranged from them.  It is encumbant on all parents to instill into their children the teachings of Islam, and not leave them ignorant and unheedful and unknowing.

     There are also cases where parents may look at their daughter, and say , "Oh she is only a little girl," where in fact she may have reached the age of bulugh (puberty) and the requirements of Islam are obligatory on her, and it is not correct for her to leave them. 


Quote
What are the general guidelines for Muslims in the mosque bathrooms too? A few articles were suggesting changing tables in the bathrooms...so what happens once you change a child? Do you leave behind dirty nappies or do women leave sanitary napkins properly disposed of if in fact we are allowed in there in the first place? Or is the proper etiquette to take diapers and such things all the way back home with you?

According to the scholars, the bathrooms are not part of the Masjid, and therefore take the same ruling as bathrooms in other places. By definition "masjid" means place of prayer, and it is not allowed to pray in bathrooms. It is encouraged, when building a masjid,  to build facilities around the masjid, such as bathrooms, and places for wudhu, so that it facilitates the worshippers to pray in a calm a peaceful manner.   

And Allah knows

Salam alaikum wrb,

May Allah increase you in knowledge.
Take a look at my site:  http://www.tajwid.info

Also a good site with several mp3 durus of beneficial knowledge from our ulema, fiqh explaining the book "bulgh Maram" , Q&A, http://www.imamfaisal.com
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